High Risk Pregnancy and Termination
Dr. Linda Street is a board-certified Maternal-Fetal Medicine Specialist and Life Coach who focuses specifically on Physician Negotiations. She is the Founder & CEO of Simply Street MD Negotiation Coaching where she helps female physicians take charge of their lives and negotiate for the salary they deserve. She lives and breathes to close the gender gap, starting with you!
Learn more on her website:
https://www.simplystreetmd.com/
Show Transcript:
Amanda:
All right. We are podcasting it's official. We have hit record and I have a beautiful guest here, very knowledgeable very dynamic. And I'm just looking forward to sharing your wisdom with her. Her name is Linda street. She is an OB GYN in Georgia. I will let you. Share the rest of your introduction.
[00:00:57] And you can say what you want to say about who you are, how you got here and why you're on the podcast. Sure.
Linda: [00:01:07]
So I'm Linda street as announced, and I'm actually a maternal fetal medicine sub-specialists, which basically means I don't take care of anything but pregnant women. And I specifically take care of pregnant women who have complications in their pregnancies.
[00:01:22] So either moms with health problems or babies with health problems. So it goes both ways. And I am here to talk a little bit about when that ends up leading to termination, some special things that come up in that setting. Unfortunately it's a setting I'm in pretty frequently. I'd say probably a couple of times, at least several times a month, if not a couple of times a week where you either have a healthy mom.
[00:01:48] Who comes in and finds out that there's something really wrong with her baby or a mom who has health concerns that make it less safe for her to be pregnant.
Amanda: [00:01:58]
This is a territory I have not explored all that much in the podcast. It is not. In my work so far, it's not the typical client who comes to me, looking for support probably for a few different reasons.
[00:02:15]So it is podcast wise and just in my work alone, it's not something I've talked a lot about. So I just, , , what do you think listeners. Need to hear and know what are some of the recurring themes and challenges. And there must be some moments of beauty, some moments of just you wouldn't do the work if it didn't also have joy.
Linda: [00:02:43]
I think specifically, and I'll break them up into two separate. . I think there are different issues with each type of pregnancy that we manage. But and I'd to add the flavor that I've trained in the Southeast and I practice in the Southeast.
[00:02:56] So it adds a. Another element to things because access is a huge issue. I'm in the non, the not Atlanta part of Georgia. And so access in this area, that country is a really big hurdle for women in general. And most of the time when we find out, especially in baby situations moms. They may know that they have illnesses, but in baby situations, a lot of times we don't find out that there are problems until late enough in the pregnancy that women are having to travel.
[00:03:28] If not a couple hours, sometimes I have to send them clear halfway across the country to get them to get the care they need.
Amanda: [00:03:36]
Is that the kind of, this is just a random offshoot question, but did they go alone or does the, does the health facility work for send someone with them, do another clinic.
[00:03:47] Do you, does that question make sense? I think because I'm a doula I'm that person needs to do all the traveling.
Linda: [00:03:52]
So fortunately with COVID restrictions, my clinic does allow a support person because I spend a lot of the day giving bad news. So we still have a partner or a support person back with the woman when we're usually talking about these things.
[00:04:06]As far as traveling, I have a list of resources and then they go on their own. I help sometimes with facilitating things, especially when we have sick mom issues and her safety needs to be taken to account. But for the most part, we have to send them alone. I actually worked for a hospital where I'm not allowed to do a termination of pregnancy.
[00:04:29] So I have some of the skillset. But I'm not allowed to they won't allow me at my hospital to, to perform those procedures.
Amanda: [00:04:36]
Is that because it's specifically a Catholic hospital or is that a Southeast thing? Or what, do you know what that is?
Linda: [00:04:43]
I actually I've inquired about it a couple of times.
[00:04:46]Certainly. As I'm sure you've run into, if you can take care of women in the community that they live in, that's so much less for them to have at least one less barrier, right?
Amanda: [00:04:59]
There are enough barriers having to travel for a healthy pregnancy, if I needed to go to a particular hospital for a particular kind of delivery, without the medically complicated stuff, I don't know.
[00:05:11] It just sounds so much to put somebody through to that. We don't have that access. That's just totally crazy. Oh, that's so sad.
Linda: [00:05:20]
Depending on the age of the pregnancy, depends on how far that is, because George's, I think actually one of the more liberal States in our vicinity of the world, the gestational age cutoff is 22 weeks.
[00:05:32] So if we're seeing somebody for that kind of anatomy ultrasound, where you're looking to see if all the pieces and parts are connected, how they're supposed to be in the baby and you diagnose something and then say you do an amnio or something to confirm with genetics you're pushing into that window.
Amanda: [00:05:47]
Do you get phone calls from okay. I'm not going to say the right words here. From activists, who are trying to increase access and change legislators legislation and law, I don't know. Maybe lobbyists even trying to fund more access, as a physician practicing this medicine, you're in the Category of I'm.
[00:06:11] Pro life except, I could see you being a target for being able to present the importance of abortion medically versus in most of the cases I'm. Working with, which is more lifestyle and just choice,
Linda: [00:06:29]
No. . I'm personally pro-choice but I am in an environment that is very anti-choice .
[00:06:36] Fortunately from a geographic standpoint, for the most part especially being out of the metropolitan areas. And so I've not really been approached.
Amanda: [00:06:45]
I can picture you being the person I bring to the. To the state house or whatever, to present the case because you have this experience of medically necessary abortion, but I know nothing.
[00:06:56]I don't even know why I asked the question cause I know nothing about this. My, my gig is mental health after abortion. So I don't know a lot about increasing access and lobbying for new bills and . . But just seems that. I'm surprised you haven't been approached.
Linda: [00:07:12]
In that regard. . But I I certainly, I have friends who have worked in more, some of the advocacy things and it's always a dance. Cause I've, I said, I've trained in this geography of the country where it's a very hot button topic. I think it is a little bit everywhere, but I think, especially when you're in this region, there are a lot of barriers that may or may not be present in other areas of the country.
Amanda: [00:07:38]
I can't imagine what that's to be a physician who has the tools that could help someone and then have to send them many hours away or even States away how do you navigate that? . How do you navigate that personally? So I don't think we mentioned that you that I was connected to you through the life coaching world, because you also use our life coach and access those tools.
[00:08:01] And in. Some of your work. So how do you navigate that yourself? Personally, how do you get through that? I just, probably, it sounds harder to me because once you've been doing it for a long time, you just find your way. But I can't imagine what it's to know that you could help somebody if.
[00:08:19] Literally, there were different words on a piece of paper administratively, right?
Linda: [00:08:24]
I think it's twofold. One end you continue to advocate, you continue to push the envelope to try to make it so you can increase that access. And I think in some ways, because. I think overall people who are otherwise unable to be more open to other people's choices.
[00:08:42] I think sometimes it's a little easier for them to imagine this situation. Not saying that it's better or worse or any different, but. I think when you have opponents, sometimes this is a little gentler introduction because you can say, Oh, this is wrong. And so I continue to try to open a little window, put your foot in the door just a little bit.
[00:09:06] I know you care for these women nearby, especially with sick moms, right? Because. Sick moms. You have the extra element of a lot of places that are able to provide abortion healthcare for women are outpatient. And so if you have a mom who has medical conditions that might need to be in a hospital for her safety 10, it gets even harder.
[00:09:29] To get access to that care for her because you have her health conditions and her safety to consider. And so I may be in a much better position to provide safe care to her because I have other services in the hospital that if anything goes wrong with blood loss, if anything goes wrong with anesthetics, I have the people nearby who can help take care of her and give her safe care.
[00:09:52] Versus at an outpatient facility, oftentimes that's not the case. And so there's an extra element to try to get timely care to those moms. And it's literally just, it's an imaginary barrier, right? We have the facilities, we have the skillset, we have people open to helping, but we don't have the administrative support.
[00:10:14]. It's difficult.
Amanda: [00:10:16]
Do you remember the emotional mental, emotional toll that took on you as a newer specialist physician than it does now, because you've found your groove, and the find your comfort zone and the discomfort maybe.
[00:10:35] . Do you remember when this was new to you and just I can't imagine not, I'm just making it up in my head that you would go home and replay the day and the people's stories. And what are your coping tools now? How did you get to hear from there?
Linda: [00:10:48]
I think overall what I do for a living has a lot of emotional ups and downs because you have people coming in excited.
[00:10:56] Cause they're going to find out if they're having a boy or a girl and all of a sudden their baby doesn't have a brain or there's a giant heart defect or something else that's really catastrophic for them. So you're already taking somebody from something that's one of the happier moments of their life.
[00:11:12] And crashing all that down on them because no matter what they choose because certainly we have palliative care options. There are lots of different options that we offer them. But no matter what they choose the child they expected to have is not the child they're bringing home. .
Amanda: [00:11:27]
You just nailed that.
Linda: [00:11:30]
So there's, I think there are emotions, no matter what. And then, To just to add a little flavor for background. I grew up in a very conservative Catholic family. And so all that was an interesting journey as well. Because the people in my family believe very different things than I do which adds a whole nother fun element to Christmas and things.
[00:11:51] But It's just, it's difficult because you're already in a hard situation. And then on top of that, you have to say, and if this is the care that works best for your family, this is I have to send you to XYZ. Depending on the age of the pregnancy, I usually have to either send them to Atlanta or to Washington DC, which is eight to 12 hours away from here.
[00:12:15] So fairly significant distances to be able to make the decision that's right for them.
Amanda: [00:12:20]
And I'm just imagining the families who have other children. Oh my goodness.
Linda: [00:12:25]
And so then they're that much more element of. Planning and childcare and just to make it more fun sometimes. We're a military community, so there's an army base where I'm at.
[00:12:35] And so sometimes they don't have anyone nearby my goodness. . Or he's deployed and she's by herself and doesn't have anyone nearby. So in the doulas. So many layers of complexity. Wow.
Amanda: [00:12:47]
Wow. Thank you for doing this work by. We need people you in the world. Holy moly. By now I feel there's, in, in the population of people, I usually talk to, there's some standard.
[00:13:02] Thoughts that a lot of people think a lot of women think I'm so alone. I feel so alone. I don't know who I am anymore. I'm broken. I don't deserve to be happy. Can you share from your perspective. What kind of emotional mental, mental, emotional experience are women who are having medically necessary abortions?
[00:13:28] What does their journey look that a user might either identify with? Or just to know from a compassionate point of view?
Linda: [00:13:37]
I think a lot of those are present too, because why this happened, did I do something that made my baby half this problem? Why am I so sick? If it's the mom that's sick, , why can't I just have a healthy pregnancy?
[00:13:47] I think there's some of those elements. I think there's also which, and I'm sure this is probably present in a lot of your folks too, is this element of, I thought this was a decision I would never make.
Amanda: [00:13:59]
That's probably the most common thing I hear. I don't know if it's, because it was also my story.
[00:14:04] So then it became just magnetizing people who had my story, but wow. . I imagine you, that even more, right? Cause they're literally planning pregnancies or at least joyfully carrying pregnancies until that moment. They're literally not prepared to make this decision and probably finding out at much harder times than most of the people I talk to.
[00:14:31]Most of the people I. I'm in touch with our have terminated very early, six, seven, eight weeks. They've barely found out they're pregnant and they make a quick decision. It's a really different experience than when you get to that amnio date. And find out, you said, Oh, my baby doesn't have a brain.
Linda: [00:14:51]
These are often maybe moving, so they've been able to feel them kick they've known they were pregnant. They've told their families at this point. They're showing sometimes. So I think it does add Just so it's just another layer that wasn't anticipated. And then from an access standpoint, too, it's a more complicated procedure, right?
[00:15:13] Just give a pill and let them go home and be in the privacy of their own house. . If you do end up doing an induction instead of a surgical procedure. They have to be in the hospital because our higher course, it's just, there's a different set of things to consider really the second trimester at all, medically or not.
[00:15:32] And so a lot of these people are a fair amount further along. Some of them have nurseries already and it's just difficult.
Amanda: [00:15:54]
For the care that I had. My own experience. I found myself afterwards going now what do I do now? Who's going to help me now. And that's why I stepped into this work because I wanted to me back then, four years ago I needed me and I didn't exist in a way that I could find exactly right.
[00:16:14]What are the, do you know of resources for these pregnancies in particular that really do serve this need of what happens when I go home without a baby after this medical termination.
Linda: [00:16:27]
So it depends by community. So I've worked at a couple different hospitals systems just through training and being out and some places, some communities do have.
[00:16:37] Actual community resources. Right now I've got a Facebook group. We put on there with other women in similar situations that they can access. I have a little handout that I have ready for my patients, with the places that are nearby and accessible, what it costs, because a lot of this isn't covered by insurance.
[00:16:55]As and We have it's almost a testimonial, other patients who have been to this place feel they got really compassionate care or they are places that we'll do a little memory box for you. . . I agree if your baby and that we have one place in the state that'll actually offer cremation.
[00:17:12] So patient, so you can have your baby's ashes that's available to you. And obviously these are difficult conversations, right? Cause it's a very emotional situation anyway. But aside from that, aftercare wise, there's not a lot. I always schedule a four to six week follow-up afterwards because at the time they're not having a follow-up with wherever they have the procedures because it's out of state, it's a several hour drive.
[00:17:37]Even if it's in state it's several hours. So I usually follow up at four to six weeks.
Amanda: [00:17:44]
I do wonder if a follow-up at the. Time of due date would also be really helpful because I do notice at least with the, most of the clients I talk with, that is one of the most challenging times is when that baby would have come.
[00:17:58] And even if they don't put two and two together, their body just knows that many months later that's when, so I wonder if in your case, a follow-up at that duty time just to check in.
Linda: [00:18:09]
That’s a very interesting point. I hadn't thought of the four to six weeks as a default for me anytime.
[00:18:14] There's a lot, of course I consider this a loss. It is I think any time women have a miscarriage or an abortion, it's a loss breathing that happens whether or not it happened with your choice or not. It's just grieving. And so I usually do a four to six week check cause when the hormones have settled a little and we'll have stopped making sure you're okay.
[00:18:35]It seems quite a down, so that's my habit for that. But due dates, that's a great, that's a great suggestion.
Amanda: [00:18:41]
Wow. Oh my goodness. What else do you see as any themes or things that the average us might not think about? When we're talking, when we're in this world of medically, emotionally desired babies and then medically necessary terminations what are the things ?
[00:19:02] Maybe we have a listener who has a friend who went through this or a family member, what are the things that. Us the general population who haven't experienced this, aren't thinking about are there any things that come to your mind?
Linda: [00:19:16]
I think all forms of grief, it really varies, but I think a lot of times It goes one way or another.
[00:19:21]And so you have to be a little delicate with the situation, but a lot of times women might want to talk about it, but might be scared of judgment. So maybe giving her the space to talk about her experience, give her a space to talk about the baby. She thought she was going to have. I feel that's the setting as a culture we're really bad at grief.
[00:19:38] We are really bad. Oh, bad. I had a boyfriend die in college and I remember people acted if they said something I was going to combust. And all I wanted to do was talk about it. I was young and didn't know what the heck was going on. And all I wanted to do is talk about it. And I feel there, there are some people that don't want to talk about it, but there's some people who do so for women who want to be able to talk about it, who want.
[00:20:00] In error, give it to them, give them a space to have a safe place where they can talk about it without judgment.
Amanda: [00:20:07] How might you open that space?
Linda: [00:20:16]
I'm in the position of knowing the details of having them know pretty.
[00:20:19] So I usually just bring it straight up, , how are you doing? . Are you coping. Okay. Did you talk to your kids? How are they doing? How's your partner doing? Cause sometimes you have, which I'm sure you're the typical audience that you have has this too, where there's a discrepancy between opinions, right?
[00:20:36] Sometimes one partner has one set of thoughts and one partner has another set.
[Amanda: [00:20:40]
Yup. Oh my gosh. That's a good, another good topic. The partnerships and the relationships. And sorry we interrupted. Cause I was , Oh gosh, that must be hard too.
Linda: [00:20:52]
We all know those situations where, I you have two humans any times you have, anytime you have two humans, there's making sure that life at home is okay.
[00:21:03] For me, something I screened for anytime I have any type of loss in women afterwards is just domestic violence and things. Cause we all know the birth of a child, the death of the child, anything around pregnancy is a risk factor for domestic violence increasing. . When I was training, we had a gal murdered in our hospital ward from domestic violence postpartum.
[00:21:23] So my heart it's real. You have, you just have to ask and people look at you funny. Totally important to them and you're , okay, we're good. . You're , why are you asking me these things? But you have to ask, because you may ask a thousand people before you find one, you can help, but that's the one you need to be asking a thousand people for.
Amanda: [00:21:42]
The way I wrote down the question before we got onto this relationship, which I keep wanting to tell you, I want to keep talking about, but maybe it's is there a way you want to talk about this? That could be helpful for you? There's there's lots of different ways we could talk about this.
[00:21:57] Is there a way, you want to, . Oh my goodness. So what do you see in terms of partnerships? And of course, with the pandemic, everything's going to be more complicated, but you must see a lot of patterns in how they communicate with each other and . I don't know. I guess I just feel that's a big, that's a big place where even in, we'll just take my own abortion.
[00:22:20] My experience was so different than his and I'm using his as if most of your partners are his, but just any partner, right? Just one of those things that you. Can't understand unless you're going through it and you must see that really put strains on relationships.
Linda: [00:22:39]
I'm getting a very I was thinking of it as a photo instead of a video.
[00:22:42] I'm getting a snapshot in time. I'm getting initial hour and then usually a quick snapshot, four to six weeks later. Unfortunately I watch a lot of men. I see a lot of men. , you're horrible States, which is not their comfort zone. Most of the time, I think women do a better job accessing our emotions and feelings than men do and a lot of things.
[00:23:03] .
Amanda: [00:23:03]
So do you see a lot of shutting down by men?
Linda: [00:23:07]
I'd say there's a lot of that. I think there's the extra element. With the woman, there's the element of the, this is happening to my body. And then with the partner, I think there's that element of helplessness of, I can't do this for her.
Amanda: [00:23:20]
Oh, that makes so much sense. . . I think the benefit I'm imagining for our listeners and, if we have listeners who have had a medical termination is , For you to share how other partners respond and the listener to go, Oh my gosh, that's how my partner responded. And I thought he or she was just Being a jerk.
]Linda: [00:23:39]
People who love us want to take all bad things away. Think of people you love, right? If you have the opportunity to take all badness away for them, you want to. And so when you're watching someone go through something, that's. So emotionally charged so catastrophic to them at that moment.
[00:24:01] And you can't do anything to make it better. There's a helplessness that I think, especially in our culture with a lot of the social socialization that men undergo, I we spend a lot of time talking about the vice versa, but I think it's really difficult to not be able to help, to not be able to make it better.
Amanda: [00:24:17]
It makes sense. . What about what about turning the table to a little bit brighter side? Where women have a subsequent pregnancy. Do you see them? Do you see some of them? Just because they've had one history of a medically complicated pregnancy, you see them for, But check-in at least or tracking what's that pregnancy following a medically complicated or aborted pregnancy.
Linda: [00:24:43]
It depends on why, right? Because some things we know have a fairly low risk of happening again. I think even in those settings where the risk of it recurring is really low until there's a normal baby on ultrasound. I think there's a lot of detachment to the next Nancy, because there's this protection of this could happen again.
[00:25:04] And I don't want to feel I felt last time. And so we tell ourselves if we detach, we won't feel that way. That's probably not true, but. That's a lot of the coping mechanism. There's nothing better than a healthy baby after, while rainbow babies.
Amanda: [00:25:20]
No. Oh my gosh. It must be so beautiful. So
Linda: [00:25:23]
I think there's something about those deliveries.
[00:25:26] That's just extra special because nobody appreciates a healthy baby. More than someone who's lost their child. Goodness. And then unfortunately I have situations that I care for where it is a genetic cause. And so they go through it a second, Natasha roulette. So you do the tests, you hold your breath and you hope that, cause some autism or recessive disorders, I'm getting all science-y here, but there's a one in four chance, every single.
Amanda: [00:25:52]
And if you're, I'm a mother, I have three beautiful, healthy children and. That if you have that desire to mom, right? If I hadn't, I would take that. I would take that one in four chance over and over again, even though it statistically could be so heartbreaking.
Linda: [00:26:11]
And when the next healthy it's the best thing in the world when the second one's not, again, it is awful.
Amanda: [00:26:19]
Oh my goodness. Whoo. You surround yourself with some interesting daily work. Don't you?
Linda: [00:26:29]
I always look at it as who better than me, right?
There are plenty of people who need the help and I at least know how I'm going to show up. And so better me than someone who may not be quite as compassionate.
Amanda: [00:26:46]
I said, at the beginning, wasn't even really sure. What to ask you or where this would lead. Is there anything else you feel you want to share that either came up or that you came knowing you wanted to share or message you want to send to these, the souls we're experiencing these kinds of pregnancy events.
Linda: [00:27:14]
I think with all learn, who've ended up at the decision of abortion. You're not alone as a society, do a really bad job of allowing people to talk about these experiences. It's it needs to be swept under the rug, a dirty secret or something.
[00:27:28] Ridiculous. So I think just knowing there are other people who've had the same experience or something similar, you're not alone. You're not good or bad. You are just a human in a place where you had to make a choice. And oftentimes there are no good choices. I think in any situation with an abortion, nobody's making that decision lightly.
[00:27:44]There aren't good choices. So I think knowing you're not alone and. Just really it's okay. If you thought you never would have, right. Because the experiences you had when you made that thought pattern and that choice are different than the experiences you're having, when you make a different choice and that's okay.
Amanda: [00:28:06]
That's gold right there. That's amazing. I see that struggle a lot is I thought I knew who I was and now everything's a lie. I don't know who I am anymore. So that's just such a beautiful reminder is the person you were. With the experiences you'd had when you created that belief, ave changed
Linda: [00:28:25]
At 16 years old growing up in youth, whatever catechism, the only protest I've ever been to as a human was a pro-life protest. . That's what you do. And then I grew up to do what I do now wow. I think there's always space for experience to happen and there's always space for people to change.
[00:28:44] And there's always circumstances that open doors in your brain that you didn't even know were close. . So it's okay. If the person yesterday would have made a different choice based on not having those experiences, that's okay.
Amanda: [00:29:00]
Thank you so much. Again, I say, a lot of times, even though I talk about abortion all day long, every day, it can be very light and joyful and we do laugh and we cry and all the things.
[00:29:11] And I just get the sense that it's that with you too, that you bring the whole package that. You do, you are capable of bringing such joy in your personality to really hard stuff. And I imagine that to be very comforting for women.
Linda: [00:29:27]
I hope so it's hard enough without me doing anything, but making it a little easier, right?
Amanda: [00:29:31]
Oh my goodness. Thank you for your work. I was just thinking about the podcast episode that's coming out tomorrow. Oh Chris Kirsten Dees recommended a book and I can't think of the name of it. It was it was about an abortion physician who travels and travels to perform abortions and has to put on costumes and wigs and do you know that book?
Linda: [00:29:56]
I don't, but I have the timeline to friends and family planning and it's it's difficult. . .
Amanda: [00:29:59]
I guess this is my last question. How does the community perceive you? They perceive you as this heroic physician helping really complicated cases, or are there people in the community who perceive you as the one who facilitates terminating.
[00:30:23]God's babies, right?
Linda: [00:30:25] I don't really catch a lot of flack because I'm not performing. And I think that's really what catches a different position. And I have all sorts of thoughts about that too, because I think it's so important to be able to have safe access to care. My grandmother actually was quite the rebellious one back in the sixties.
[00:30:44] And she has some stories that are horrific before safe care was available. So I really value the ability to share those stories with you.
Amanda: [00:30:53]
Wow. I need to ask her just one more question.
[00:31:03] Maybe it wasn't really about that. Maybe it was about this. Did she openly share those stories with you or.
Linda: [00:31:10]
No, I can't remember what the conversation started as, but basically my dumb smart, but at 18 who thought I knew everything and was high and mighty and King of the world made some comment of how it was never an acceptable option.
[00:31:24]. And she. Through my butt down.
Amanda: [00:31:27]
Wow. What a life? That sounds a life-changing moment right there. . It really makes you think.
Linda: [00:31:33]
And at the time I wasn't ready to hear it, so it just . Whatever grandma, that's not real anymore. But throughout the years, I'm a little bit older than 18 at this point.
[00:31:44] And throughout the years it really resonated as lot.
Amanda: [00:31:48]
Oh, my goodness. That's amazing. Is she still with you today? Thank you for a moment. She is. What does she think of your work?
Linda: [00:31:56]
She's very stoic until she needs to say something. She hasn't really said much of anything. Interesting. She's more one to just sit in the corner and give you a slight nod to that.
[00:32:07] I love it. There's just such a. There's such a value on that. So just the fact that it's so difficult for these physicians that have to do those things just breaks my heart. I I said, I have friends who are in family planning and the precautions they have to take to keep their families safe.
[00:32:21] It's just, it's awful. I think from a community to circle back to the question you actually asked me cause I'm wandering too. I think that from a community perspective, 99% of what I do is helping sick women have healthy pregnancies. . I fly under the radar. Hopefully this won't change that, but we can change your last name.
But I think for the most part I'm sheltered a lot from that. . . Because I'm counseling on all sorts of different choices. .
Amanda: [00:32:48]
Exactly. Your work is much bigger than what you, what we've talked about here. But thank you for talking about this. . It's all been really fascinating for me and not stuff that I always think about.
Linda: [00:32:59]
Thank you. Thank you for doing what you do because it's important. And I think it's important to have the time.
Amanda: [00:33:05]
That's all we're doing is opening doors. It, you said that at one point, right? We're just opening.
Linda: [00:33:10]
Yes. Part of life. It's something that happens and we can shame people and make them feel badly, which is really not a good way to do things.
[00:33:19] I have some choice words, but I don't know if you've got the explicit thing on your phone. I think the alternative is we can actually be compassionate humans and accept the fact that, there's no wrong choices, the same way. There's no right choices to people.
Amanda: [00:33:39]
Life is very complex. Isn't it always. All right. Thank you for sharing with us. And I look forward to getting to know you even better.
Linda: [00:33:48] Yes, ma'am. Thank you for having me.
